False False Prophets
I was talking with a friend who related a conversation he’d had with someone who’d been reading about how so many of the big names in pastors have fallen away from true Christianity (become apostate) such as Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen and Brian Tamaki.
I told him to be careful of such teachings. It is true that in the last days, there will be many false prophets. However, there are also many false prophets who are calling Godly people false prophets. Confused yet? That’s Satan’s plan – let’s confuse the world so that they can be stolen away from God.
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are you, when men shall curse you, and persecute you, and shall say all kinds of evil lies against you, for my sake. 12Rejoice, and be delighted: because your reward in heaven is great. Because in the same way, they persecuted the prophets who went before you.
I am very wary of people who condemn others who preach godliness in a different form to themselves. If you look for it, you will find fault in every person. Gosh, Martin Luther was pivotal in the restoration of the church, but his anti-Semitic writings fuelled the holocaust of WWII. Was he apostate? Or was his understanding of God’s word just imperfect – like the rest of us. Even Paul had to rebuke Peter for his hypocrisy, withdrawing himself from non-Jews when some pious Jews turned up. Was Peter apostate? Or did he just get caught up in a moment of stinking humanness?
Galatians 2:11 But when Peter came to Antioch, I challenged him directly because he was wrong. 12Before some guys came from James, he ate with non-Jewish people: but when they came, he snubbed those people, fearing those who were legalistic. 13And the other Jews joined him; even Barnabas got carried away in their hypocrisy. 14But when I saw that they deviated from the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live like non-Jews, and not like the Jews, why do you compel these non-Jews to live like Jews?”
I saw some of a YouTube clip of someone explaining how some other person is apostate. This seemed full of pride and judgement.
James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he will lift you up.
11Don’t speak against each other, brothers. He who speaks evil of his brother, and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law, and judges the law: but if you judge the law, you aren’t keeping it, but judging it. 12There is one lawgiver, who can save and destroy: who are you to judge another?
What’s worse is to generally condemn an entire denomination. When the apostate religious capitol is destroyed in Revelation 18, on that day, God will first call his people out of that city. This means there’s still godly people among the corrupt churches.
So how do we know?
I look to the apostle’s creeds as the basic statement of faith. i.e. what it is to be a Christian
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God’s only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostles%27_Creed
Note, I understand “catholic” as a verb meaning universal, which the Catholic church claims to be, but has much dodgy teaching (but maybe I do too).
I recognize anyone as Christian who
- Agrees to these words completely
- Recognizes all others who agree to these words completely
For those who dismiss other believers are cutting themselves off from the body of Christ and contradicting.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, but through me.”
Such people infer that they or their church are the only way to the father. This seems to be the primary marker for an apostate sect.
1 John 4:20 If someone says, I love God, but hates his brother, he is a liar. Because if someone doesn’t love his brother that he’s seen, how can he love God that he hasn’t seen? 21And this commandment have we from him, that he who loves God must love his brother also.
Love does not expose another’s faults but covers them with grace.
Genesis 9:20 Noah, a farmer, proceeded to plant a vineyard. 21When he drank some of its wine, he got drunk and lay naked in his tent. 22Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father naked and told his two brothers outside. 23But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders. Then they walked in backwards and covered the father’s naked body. They kept their faces turned the other way so that they would not see their father naked.
When we see a brother in error, we are to pray for them and gently correct them. It is not for us to condemn another, because our judgement is imperfect. In the future, they will repay you in the same way.
John 13:34 I give you a new commandment: That you love one another. In just the same way as I have loved you, you must love each other. 35By this it will be obvious to all people that you are my disciples: if you have a deep loving affection for each other.
Hello Brent; I have read your piece with interest, Considering your
I was talking with a friend who related a conversation he’d had with someone who’d been reading about how so many of the big names in pastors have fallen away from true Christianity (become apostate) such as Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen and Brian Tamaki.
“I told him to be careful of such teachings. It is true that in the last days, there will be many false prophets. However, there are also many false prophets who are calling Godly people false prophets, and others saying that Godly Pastors have fallen away from teaching the Christianity of the bible. Either side can turn people away from seeking Christ and inviting him into their life
You say that
I am very wary of people who condemn others who preach godliness in a different form to themselves.”
Now I think that we need to back up to the statement ” people who condemn others who breach godliness in a different form to themselves. To me the issue is not about mega churches – Jesus spoke to many thousands, but what these pastors are teaching
1. Is the focus solely on the pastor- to what extent are those in the congregation idolising them. What is the direct focus of teaching- the gospel from NT or the gospel of the preacher that only speaks of love, grace and forgiveness of Jesus- all true but how often do they to speak about the challenges and tough aspect of a personal Christian journey. How does their preaching match up to the NT apostles- often they were run out of town for preaching the truth of scripture. Also to what is the service just a replicate of a modern pop show. The music might be modern, but how clear and accurate is the message of the songs to scripture. Are the congregation worshipping God/Christ or the Pastor. Does the complete message of music, worship and teaching only tickle the ears of the congregation. how often does the preacher include the tough stuff.
2. What would the attendance at the church if the senior pastor didn’t teach for a year, while other leaders from the church stepped up. If no change attendance isn’t based solely on the Pastor.
3. For me Joel Osteen only preaches a gospel of success and often I don’t hear him teaching from scripture; similarly I would have the same concerns of Benny Hinn; Joseph Prince and T D Jakes
4. For those such as Pat Robertson; he is not acting as a pastor; but a Christian media mogul so his wealth is as a result of his media production company.
5. In NZ Brian Tamaki is both having a significant impact on Maori men, and I would like Corrections take his on his “Man Up” programme as it has been gaining excellent results changing attitudes and actions toward family and wives. However while I agree with tithing, I find it very disturbing to know that local secondary principals are reporting families going to his church are making significant giving often beyond a tithe; and the church is not reaching out to support their own. This is where many of us question the life style of these pastors who live in million dollar homes in NZ and multi million dollar homes in US.
6. Now to Joyce Meyer; her teaching is very helpful to many people who are struggling with life issues. She does build her teaching on biblical principals. However such teachers do have to be careful that they don’t slip in to being Life Coaches teaching humanistic principles. While you or I wouldn’t support the teaching of these values, but they can be valuable to some people. however people using the services of Life Coaches must know and understand the values under which the service is being given; and be educated how to pick up satanic influences. This will always be a challenge for Joyce, so she will need Godly leadership of her ministry to ensure she doesn’t stray to becoming a Life Coach.
” However, there are also many false prophets who are calling Godly people false prophets.” When you make this statement along with concern your friend’s friend that ” who’d been reading about how so many of the big names in pastors have fallen away from true Christianity. ”
We need to have a scriptural basis upon which either can be evaluated i.e false prophets calling Godly people false prophets. or Godly pastors becoming false prophets.
This must be measured against the principles of the NT church. Clearly the form that the church today has developed over time, but the basic principals are clearly set out in scripture. Hence we have to be alert to both false prophets speaking of Christian Pastors falling away or Christian pastors being falsely being spoken of.
Now the big elephant in the room; What is the justification for a significant number of the pastors of many of the mega churches, live a lifestyle of a Mega Star with all the trappings of Mega Wealth.
For anyone questioning Christianity in their own journey of finding the truth of Jesus for themselves, these Pastors can put possibly as many people off Christianity as the number that they bring to Christ. I will pick up this conversation after your response. I suspect that you would put the view that the Media is seeking to bring these Pastors down; that the media is a tool of Satan. However if journalists are seeking to distort the truth then it may be so but we do quality investigators to research the facts. ie Joyce Meyer ministries have fully opened their books to the IRS
I see issues that must be faced particularly as it relates to use of corporate business structures to minimise their tax payments. E.G tax havens, charitable trusts which are tax free; Ministry trust paying their staff, who do not pay tax; Christian speakers being paid an appearance fee, like music stars- yes meet any costs;
Perhaps you may say that the church should use these tools to minimize tax paid. but when the speaker earns their living from their book sales, why should the speaker also be paid; costs for individual’s at conferences should only be based on costs- venue hire and associated costs; payment to musicians and all other staff involved in putting on such a conference, accommodation etc.
However in my view the conference should charge an amount so event breaks even. For most Christian speakers they earn their income from book, and digital sales, which they sell at the conference. To me this is their own business on which they should be normal taxes. What they chose to give to the ministry is their own decision. Also where there is Ministry that has a number of outreach & missions services, then when a person makes a donation it should be clear to the giver; and no confusion betw a gift to the Ministry and the Speaker. Where the Speaker/Pastor does work for the Ministry then they should only be paid, along with costs if they are not using the event to sell their books, media etc. For me like so many others, we struggle to understand why some of the Mega church Pastors live an extravagent life style, and preach the truth of NT christianity.
It is like many of us, who can see that God is using Donald Trump to bring about signficant events like the returning the US Embassy back to Jerusalem. but when Trump still purports that he is a Christian, while he abused immigrant labour to build his properties and his attitude toward women is appaling.
At least King David both achieved the heights of success and then rapidly fell from grace, he was genuinely remorseful and sought God’s forgiveness and determined to not sin again.
A rather long response, but it’s a great additional perspective on this topic. Thanks Rae.
Just trying to keep up with your length of articles – he he. while quite lengthy I am interested to your response’ from Points 1 – 6 and individual preachers/ ministries decisions of the life style of individual Pastors? Also do you not think that there is potential to idolise the Pastor of Mega churches, when this Pastor is the only preacher most of the time?
I’m not interested in lengthy discussion. I won’t engage in denouncing anyone unless they are clearly anti-christian, but I will acknowledge concerns. We all have our faults and should stick up for each other, but admonish personally, privately. I was delighted to see you do this for Brian Tamaki, while acknowledging his weaknesses. I see Benny Hinn in a similar light. I felt I should check him out and found his teaching awesome. But I soon grew tired of his YouTube clips encouraging us to back our faith with our finances and btw, here’s by number.
Finances is always touchy. I found https://youtu.be/NLsE_YOsP5s great: Her life story identified with my “Freely you have received, freely give” attitude and countered that with the starving realization that “A man is worthy of his keep” and “advice given freely is treated cheaply”. I think God challenges us through the Bennys and Brians, where our heart is. Will we judge/dismiss our brother through worldly eyes, or will we receive the opening of the supernatural he imparts through him?
There’s a tendency to idolize leadership – after the exodus, the Jews cried out: “Moses, don’t let God speak to us directly, but you be his representative”. We must create a space where our leaders can be open about their weaknesses and structure that protects them from the greater temptations they face, particular when they slip up.
If one wishes to judge, it should be on the grounds of their fruit – Are they building up disciples for God? Are they inspiring deeper personal relationship and understanding of him?